Don't remove the flame rule, please.

I am mad at jpez but I think it's not fair to demote him for what he did BEFORE the rule. I know he won't stop flaming me but give him the benifit of the doubt.
OK, the flame rule shall stand for now. I'm seriously considering removing it though, especially considering how much I love the SNOTY thread. Cool
allynfolksjr wrote:
This forum is quickly being transformed into omnimaga: where the opposing voice is quickly quelled and banned. The result is a dry and boring forum where one side is the only one heard.

I don't see the relevance of your statement -- or shall I say opinion.

"Opinions are like bu**holes... Everyone has one and they all stink!" Laughing
Nice. I happen to like to hear people's opinion, but everyone's opinion should be equally respected, even if you don't agree.
Yes, everyone has an opinion, and it should be respected, but continously raging on people about being a n00b or for what ever reason, and flaming them, is just getting rediculous. We also are trying to be fair by asking politely to just let it go, and stop bothering the person.

All that we ask is if you have a problem with a person, use your PM box, and have your "discussion" there, we would like to keep flaming off the forums itself. Please respect that opinion, and we shouldn't have to enforce the rule at all, k?
Exactly, that sounds like a plan.
shall we come up with a system to prevent this? like first 2 times a warning. 3 times a 3 day ban. 4th time is a 1 week ban and everything after that is a month.
elfprince13 wrote:
shall we come up with a system to prevent this? like first 2 times a warning. 3 times a 3 day ban. 4th time is a 1 week ban and everything after that is a month.


YES. My thoughts exactly after reading about the rule.
Yeah, that would be excellent. I think we should evaluate the severity of each case objectively though, and not jump on minor stuff.
elfprince13 wrote:
shall we come up with a system to prevent this? like first 2 times a warning. 3 times a 3 day ban. 4th time is a 1 week ban and everything after that is a month.

That's awfully ridged and uncompromising. Also keep in mind that many people have differing opinions on what constitutes "flaming." Banning is not the solution, either. It only leads to more conflict, not less.
First off, will everyone PLEASE stop saying crap like "as an impartial" or "I'm not going to take sides" or stuff like that, cause frankly, everyone DOES take a side. NO ONE is impartial, EVERYONE is affected. Particularly you, Kerm, with the continout "impartial webmaster" thing. You CAN'T be impartial to things that happen on your site. You MUST take some sort of a position on the topic.

NOW THEN, Kerm, it is extremely disapointing that you would de-admin jpez because you were heat from his opinions. You should just tell people who complain to you to take it up with jpez and not you. It is pathetic that you would de-admin someone just because some other people didn't like his opinion. Stop trying to please everyone, or in the end you please no one.

Also, according to the 'flame rule' ( http://www.cemetech.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1026&highlight= ) jpez would only have a minor infraction against this rule. His harshest post falls within the 1 or 2 limits of the rule, and therefore wouldn't be able to count against him according to that rule.

Now can this entire BPC topic please DIE already? Let the past be the past and get over it.
Kllrnohj wrote:
First off, will everyone PLEASE stop saying crap like "as an impartial" or "I'm not going to take sides"

I wasn't involved in the thread as everyone in this discussion was, and therefore can claim I'm nothing other than an observer.

Other than that, you make relevant points. Smile
allynfolksjr wrote:
I wasn't involved in the thread as everyone in this discussion was, and therefor can claim I'm nothing other than a observer.


You still have opinions concerning it (which you have expressed) and are therefore no longer impartial.
*an observer
*therefore
<.<

I never said I didn't have opinions, but that I simply wasn't involved in the initial controversy.
KermMartian wrote:
Hold on just one second. Chip: you were urging me to stop JPez from trashing birdman.
I don't ever remember doing that. I searched exhaustively through every birdman topic, but in everyone i agreed with Jpez (at a much less extreme level).

I have read over these last few topics and I have come to some conclusions. For one thing, we all seem to have caught a case of Kevin-itis in that we took a remark by Jpez that just straight-up told birdman that he won't really be able to make ground breaking games and turned it into a petition, into a cemetech law, and made a huge deal out of nothing. We sound like a bunch of emotional babies; it's rediculous. Grow up people. So Jpez put you in your place, deal with it. You shouldn't go on making posts about how you were flamed and whining in there, too.

I think that any thoughts of banning someone should be done on a case by case basis. If you start making a rigid guideline that everyone must adhere to there will unfair punishments. I wish to go back on my statements before--that the way that Jpez was punished was unfair--partially because I believe that there should be a sort of trial by constituents if someone is accused of flaming. But this trial should be conducted with the accused present so that he has a chance to defend himself against his acusers.

My last point is this. Sometimes an apology is all that is needed. If Jpez was banned, how does this help birdman? Sure he will have a period of time where he won't have to deal with Jpez, but it doesn't make any reparations for what has been done. Perhaps the best and most effective punishment would be to have the accused appologize. If they refuse to do so, then take more severe measures. Using this method the punishment is much more equal to the crime. Being harshly honest is not nearly as severe as banning or demotion. Jpez should just have to appologize to birdman, not for sharing his opinion, but for doing it in a way that hurt birdman's feelings. Jpez has a right to say whatever he wants as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else.
allynfolksjr wrote:
elfprince13 wrote:
shall we come up with a system to prevent this? like first 2 times a warning. 3 times a 3 day ban. 4th time is a 1 week ban and everything after that is a month.

That's awfully ridged and uncompromising. Also keep in mind that many people have differing opinions on what constitutes "flaming." Banning is not the solution, either. It only leads to more conflict, not less.

Uncompromising? This proposed rules gives someone two chances two correct their behavior before action is taken agaisnt them. While everyone may have different opinions on what is considered flaming, I think everyone can agree that all flames share common properties:

They attack the person, not the problem.
They don't use the friendliest language.
They are not used to resolved problems. They are confrontational.

All of this creates an unpleasant atmosphere that ruins Cemetech's reputation and Kerm's. You may all be criticizing Kerm for this, but take into consideration that Kerm has so much more to lose. He has his reputation, that he spent six years building, to lose. He has Cemetech to lose. Kerm has a lot more to lose than an adminship. Maybe next time consider other underlying reasons that prompted Kerm to take action.
Look guys, the last thing I want to do is make enemies for either myself or Cemetech; I respect all of you for your intelligence, opinions notwithstanding. Therefore, I want to remain impartial so no one feels as if I'm being unfair, and that's why I was a bit hesitant to deadmin JPez, since he's a good friend of mine from here, Blockland, and just general chatting. I finally did it because I thought that would be in the overall interest of keeping as many of you as friends and members as possible, but now that I see I apparently misread the situation, he has been reinstated, a move I am far happier to have made. I hope everyone can shake hands and make up, and as Kllrnohj said, let's move on.
Kerm, I agree 100%. I think this solution is fair for everyone. Next time something like this happens, why don't we just confront the person that we feel is being over the top and ask them to stop; at the same time let's not overreact again. Kerm, I understand you are in a bad position in all of this, and you handled yourself pretty well under the circumstances. I don't think anyone will blame you for what happened here. Let's just move on Good Idea
Thank you Chipmaster, I'm happy to hear that. Now I just need to get ahold of Jpez on AIM and see what I can do...
KermMartian wrote:
Thank you Chipmaster, I'm happy to hear that. Now I just need to get ahold of Jpez on AIM and see what I can do...


he seems to come on Yahoo! more frequently.
  
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