http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/budget-showdown-government-brink-shutdown/story?id=13277834

Grab your survival backpacks and rent some space in a lead-lined bunker, we're gonna party like it's 1995! Yes, apparently we're heading for Armageddon since lawmakers cannot agree on a budget. Republicans b!tch about us not cutting enough, Democrats b!tch about Republicans cutting funding for important programs with very little fiscal impact(EPA, planned parenthood, etc.), and the whole time this goes things just get worse and worse. While I'd love to be able to blame Republicans, truth is I haven't heard a good plan from Democrats to deal with this either. I've heard plenty of ideas(surtax on the rich, reduce Military spending, go back to Clinton-era tax levels, etc.) but no actual laid-out plan that can be compared to the Republican one. Maybe there is one and the news just hasn't focused on it, but it seems to me at least like noone actually has any idea what to do. It's easy to say "this is the number we want to cut, let's do it" but it's much harder to actually find things you can cut to reach that goal without causing harm.

So to anyone who was conscious in 1995, I have a question: what's it like to lose your government?

TsukasaZX's OBLIVIOUS prevented foe Media's HYPE from causing panic!

Honestly, I could care less. It doesn't seem to be directly affecting me as of yet so I'm not going to waste any mental clock cycles worrying or ranting about it.

I'm not worrying, I'm actually kind of excited. I've never seen one of these before, and I'm interested to see what happens.

Well, "government shutdown" is not as catastrophic as it might initially sound from reading that article, but even so, I had to don my +3 sweater vest of anti-hysterics to read that article. I'll be interested to see what happens with this as well.

Good.

Now THAT is scary.

Ghetto merge from the Fiscal Responsibility thread:

( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget )

I am, are you?

President writes it, Congress tinkers with it and sends it back, President approves/vetoes it (repeat as necessary).

It can be argued that democrats are having trouble balancing the budget in this congress because of the huge divide between the parties that gets in the way of all their proposals...

No one is actually talking about the President's proposal when they talk about a balanced Federal budget, because the proposal has little bearing on what actually happens or how much money our government spends. They're talking about the spending bills that end up being enacted by Congress that form the budget which the country actually uses.

Or in the case of current events, the spending bills that Congress doesn't pass because they can't agree on a budget.

From what I can gather, I can form these two Axioms:

A (more or less) fair compromise with democrats is needed in order to prevent a government shutdown.

Republicans cannot compromise with democrats without upsetting their base and risking primary election losses.

If these are true, then a shutdown of our government is unavoidable. Happy New 1995!

I was reading some fascinating articles about all the different effects this is going to have, including the military, courts being forced to run on court fees, the IRS not issuing tax refund checks in an orderly fashion, etc.

To play devil's advocate, I'm not convinced those principles are fundamental enough to be worth axiomatizing -- but I'm not disagreeing with their validity, or your conclusion.

In general, axioms should be the base principles which you use as definitions and from which you derive everything else about the system.

[edit]

Just for reference, there's nothing technically incorrect about defining whatever you choose to be your axioms, but in general their purpose is to be foundational rather than something which can be built up from other assumptions.

Yeah, but Police and Fire will be unaffected, so at least we'll still have the police to sit around and do nothing when riots break out...

EDIT- noted elfprince

I laugh at this. After last year's election (June 2010), the Belgian parties STILL haven't managed to form a government. In March of 2011, we broke the world record "government formation". The word "deadline" has no meaning in this country.

And btw, the Belgian gov't shut down multiple times last year. (of course, the impact of a government shutdown in the US would be greater, but I still think the hysteria is kinda funny)


EDIT: the problem is fundamentally different, though. We're a trilingual country that is small enough as-is, and we can't quite agree on the "language zones". (some people are freaking out about ZOMG THE FRENCH ARE TAKING OVER BRUSSELS.)

One thing I've yet to see mentioned is how everyone in the country who doesn't have a job/is disabled/unable to work is completely and utterly screwed. Whatever happened to the "Christian-conserative value" of caring for your fellow man?

EDIT- is anyone else secretly looking forward to the race riots that will inevitably occur as a result of the insanely disproportionate amount of minorities in poverty?

Christian's don't deny the occasional value of "tough-love". It may not be pleasant to deal with a government shutdown, but it's a lot less unpleasant than, say, a total economic collapse or becoming a territory of China.


I'm pretty sure it's not that disproportionate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachia#Poverty_in_Appalachia


[edit]
Some interesting insights: http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/in_budget_fight_conservatives_have_put_themselves_in_a_corner/2011/04/06/AFPriirC_story.html?wprss=rss_homepage

I'm just hoping we don't eventually end up in a 1984. (Props to whoever gets the reference)

Yeah yeah, it isn't going to happen, not without huge society-wide changes in how we think, act, and vote.

Getting back on topic, I still haven't heard from you older members what the last shutdown was like...

Yeah I know, just making a joke on the 1995 thing. Glad you got the reference.

You don't exactly have to be well-read to get a George Orwell reference (I hope! If I'm wrong, then I'll lose my last remaining shred of faith in the American educational system).