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Radical Pi
Advanced Member
Joined: 23 Nov 2005
Posts: 455
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 Posted: 18 May 2006 06:16:32 pm Post subject: |
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DarkerLine wrote: SilverCalcKnight wrote: Great sig, Radical Pi. And I think the 4th dimension is just an extra direction. We can't comprehend it, because we can only think in 3 dimensions, because that is all we see. However, most living things have 3 dimensions. Length, width, and height. But then again, if we can't see the 4th dimension, how would we know it's there?
[post="79690"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post] We can know it's not there because nothing has ever been detected to move in a fourth dimension (which would appear as an object or at least an atom disappearing or reappering). Therefore, the simplest explanation is that it simply doesn't exist.
[post="79698"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]
Last time I checked, atoms couldn't fit inside the Planck length.  |
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Arcane Wizard
`semi-hippie`
Super Elite (Last Title)
Joined: 02 Jun 2003
Posts: 8993
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| Posted: 18 May 2006 06:24:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Last time I checked atoms have actually been observed to disappear, reappear, and even single atoms to excist in multiple locations at once. |
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Rezek
Better Than You
Calc Guru
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 1229
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| Posted: 18 May 2006 07:44:34 pm Post subject: |
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Gur, Arcane Wizard beat me to it:
Quote: We can know it's not there because nothing has ever been detected to move in a fourth dimension (which would appear as an object or at least an atom disappearing or reappering). Therefore, the simplest explanation is that it simply doesn't exist.
We have found examples of particles that appear and dissapear in loops. In fact there is a theory in which time travel appears at the sub-atomic level in which particles appear at 0, dissapear at say 6 and reappear back at 0 where 0 - 6 represent points on a timeline. |
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Brazucs
I have no idea what my avatar is.
Super Elite (Last Title)
Joined: 31 Mar 2004
Posts: 3349
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| Posted: 18 May 2006 11:16:49 pm Post subject: |
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Weregoose wrote:
Plagiarism: copying from one source.
Research: copying from many sources.
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IAmACalculator
In a state of quasi-hiatus
Know-It-All
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 1571
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| Posted: 19 May 2006 06:52:25 am Post subject: |
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Weregoose wrote: re·search
v. intr.
To engage in or perform research.[post="79678"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post] Ya know, if I didn't know that research was a noun as well as a verb, I'd be really confused about now. |
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trigkid213
Member
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 208
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| Posted: 19 May 2006 07:16:49 am Post subject: |
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Rezek wrote: For starters: a dimension is not a point.
That's exactly what the 0th dimension is. |
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IAmACalculator
In a state of quasi-hiatus
Know-It-All
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 1571
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| Posted: 19 May 2006 07:24:53 am Post subject: |
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| Yes, but 'dimension' implies that there is actually some space/line/plane/whatever to move in. The 0th dimension is not actually a dimension at all, merely the lack of dimensions. Why do you think it's called that? |
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Jacobbus
Member
Joined: 20 Aug 2005
Posts: 106
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| Posted: 19 May 2006 11:45:30 am Post subject: |
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What about the good old logic:
"Something doesn't exist until proven otherwise"
? |
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Fr0stbyte124
Advanced Newbie
Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 98
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| Posted: 19 May 2006 02:35:24 pm Post subject: |
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Just to clear something up; time is not the fourth dimension. However, it is only feasable because of the extra dimension. Otherwise space-time would take up too much space to exist. Secondly, you see the fourth dimension all the time. That's what gravity really is: the bending of the fourth dimension around an object of mass.
When a planet orbits the sun, its actually going in a straight line, but that straight line exists in 4D space, which is curved due to the mass of the sun. That curve ends up with that straight line creating a bend in 3D space to where the planet will come back to where it started. That bending manafests itself as acceleration, even though it doesn't follow Newtonian physics to do so. In fact, this is the reason light can be pulled by gravity even if it has no mass.
Something to think about: when you are in freefall, you are actually staying in place from a 4D perspective. |
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Jutt
Advanced Newbie
Joined: 27 Jun 2004
Posts: 94
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| Posted: 19 May 2006 05:27:48 pm Post subject: |
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Fr0stbyte124 wrote: When a planet orbits the sun, its actually going in a straight line, but that straight line exists in 4D space, which is curved due to the mass of the sun. That curve ends up with that straight line creating a bend in 3D space to where the planet will come back to where it started. That bending manafests itself as acceleration, even though it doesn't follow Newtonian physics to do so. In fact, this is the reason light can be pulled by gravity even if it has no mass.
What you say here is that in 4 dimensions a straight line can have the same properties as a circle, but as far as I know a line can never meet a point where it has already been, no matter how many dimensions there are. When a Line is straight in n dimensions, you will never observe it as a circle in n-1 dimensions. The opposite is possible though.
As far as I know there are two ways the universe is bent in the 4th dimension.
-On a small scale, caused by mass, we call that gravity. You may know the comparison with a rubber surface.
-On a large scale. The universe is probably bent as the 'surface' of a 4D body: A hyper sphere or hyper torus or whatever. Like the surface of a sphere, it is finite, but has no edges and if you travel far enough you'll eventually come back to the place where you've started. |
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Rezek
Better Than You
Calc Guru
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 1229
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| Posted: 19 May 2006 05:57:34 pm Post subject: |
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trigkid213 wrote: Rezek wrote: For starters: a dimension is not a point.
That's exactly what the 0th dimension is.
[post="79754"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]
IAmACalculator wrote: Yes, but 'dimension' implies that there is actually some space/line/plane/whatever to move in. The 0th dimension is not actually a dimension at all, merely the lack of dimensions. Why do you think it's called that?
[post="79755"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]
Thank you for doing my work for me. Besides, points don't even exist, we just reference them by their X, Y, & Z coordinates. |
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Liazon
title goes here
Bandwidth Hog
Joined: 01 Nov 2005
Posts: 2007
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| Posted: 19 May 2006 08:36:56 pm Post subject: |
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Fr0stbyte124 wrote: Just to clear something up; time is not the fourth dimension. However, it is only feasable because of the extra dimension. Otherwise space-time would take up too much space to exist. Secondly, you see the fourth dimension all the time. That's what gravity really is: the bending of the fourth dimension around an object of mass.
When a planet orbits the sun, its actually going in a straight line, but that straight line exists in 4D space, which is curved due to the mass of the sun. That curve ends up with that straight line creating a bend in 3D space to where the planet will come back to where it started. That bending manafests itself as acceleration, even though it doesn't follow Newtonian physics to do so. In fact, this is the reason light can be pulled by gravity even if it has no mass.
Something to think about: when you are in freefall, you are actually staying in place from a 4D perspective.
[post="79781"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]
I remember in some how to write a scifi book (perhaps by orson scott card) that hyperdrive is supposedly explained by the 4th dimension. Basically, hyperspace is using the 4th dimension to travel somewhere, assuming that the distance to the place in 4d space is shorter than the 3 other spatial dimension. Sorry I don't remember all the details. |
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Rezek
Better Than You
Calc Guru
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 1229
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| Posted: 19 May 2006 09:56:12 pm Post subject: |
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The current theory for a working hyperdrive (rather, faster-than-light travel) involves creating a seperate universe around the spaceship and squeezing space between the space ship and the destination point while stretching it between the departure point and ship so:
D = Departure Point, S = Ship, F = Destination
Code:
D | | | | | S | | | | | F
becomes
Code:
D | | | | | S ||||| F
and so on. But we haven't figured out how to enclose the ship in a bubble yet, or bring it out of it's universe. |
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Super Speler
Super Awesome Dude
Calc Guru
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
Posts: 1391
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| Posted: 20 May 2006 11:00:48 am Post subject: |
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Quote: What about the good old logic:
"Something doesn't exist until proven otherwise"
?
Prove to my your TI exists. |
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IAmACalculator
In a state of quasi-hiatus
Know-It-All
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 1571
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| Posted: 20 May 2006 11:06:01 am Post subject: |
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Rezek wrote: The current theory for a working hyperdrive (rather, faster-than-light travel)...[post="79825"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post] Isn't travelling faster than light impossible? I understand from the Theory of Relativity that light is always the same speed relative to you, no matter how fast you go. And even if you could, the Theory of Relativity also states that wherever you're travelling to will have aged millions of years at such enormous speeds.
Last edited by Guest on 20 May 2006 11:07:17 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Super Speler
Super Awesome Dude
Calc Guru
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
Posts: 1391
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| Posted: 20 May 2006 11:11:11 am Post subject: |
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Quote: Isn't travelling faster than light impossible? I understand from the Theory of Relativity that light is always the same speed relative to you, no matter how fast you go. And even if you could, the Theory of Relativity also states that wherever you're travelling to will have aged millions of years at such enormous speeds.
I read in the New York Times that they accelerated something to past the speed of light recently. It was interesting because it claims that it does not break any laws. |
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Arcane Wizard
`semi-hippie`
Super Elite (Last Title)
Joined: 02 Jun 2003
Posts: 8993
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| Posted: 20 May 2006 11:56:49 am Post subject: |
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| That's because speed laws only apply to specific vehicles and those particles wheren't documented as such in traffic law. |
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alexrudd
pm me if you read this
Bandwidth Hog
Joined: 06 Oct 2004
Posts: 2335
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| Posted: 20 May 2006 12:20:28 pm Post subject: |
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| I suspect that if hyperspace were ever possible, government regulation would make it so expensive as to be nearly impossible (like space travel now). |
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Rezek
Better Than You
Calc Guru
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 1229
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| Posted: 20 May 2006 12:21:30 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: Isn't travelling faster than light impossible? I understand from the Theory of Relativity that light is always the same speed relative to you, no matter how fast you go.
Ok, bad wording on my part. You aren't actually traveling faster than light, rather, the time it takes you to get from your starting point to your destination point is less than the time it would take light to get there.
Quote: I read in the New York Times that they accelerated something to past the speed of light recently. It was interesting because it claims that it does not break any laws.
Guess what that 'something' was... Light!
For that matter, they've made light come out of a tube before it's gone into it, they've slowed it down, they'ved made it dissapear at one point and pop out of another point some meters away (without it going anywhere in between them), they've made it travel backwards through a tube, etc, etc, etc...
Last edited by Guest on 20 May 2006 12:22:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Liazon
title goes here
Bandwidth Hog
Joined: 01 Nov 2005
Posts: 2007
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| Posted: 20 May 2006 01:05:50 pm Post subject: |
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| What if everything could just be turned into light, sent to where ever it has to go, an unpackaged pack into its constituient matter particles? |
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Math and Science => Technology & Calculator Open Topic
